Well, thanks for all your thoughts on this subject. They're pretty good ones, as always, and I'm grateful for them! For everyone who hasn't sent them in: Do so now! I know you want your name to be on the bottom on one of the fan thoughts below.
Anyways, on with them. Here we go.
I think the music affecting the way the battles work is an interesting idea. Hopefully they work it out so it is tricky to figure out, but easy to understand once it has been figured out. For PSI attacks, I think they should do a big long (5-10 second) cinema scene where it shows what's happening in great detail. For example, when someone casts PSI Freeze, it starts snowing, then a storm blows up and presses the snowflakes together to form a large block of ice which then gets slammed into the enemy. And for PSI Starstorm, the camera pans up to show the sky with what looks like a meteor shower, then a few of the meteors stray from the group and smash into the enemy. The backgrounds should be the psychadelic stuff like in the original Earthbound (Some one should make a screen saver to look like that), only in 3D. The enemies should be heavily animated to show what they are doing, and even what they are thinking. That is what I think, anyway...
I think for the SMAAAASH hits, there should be a "Timed Hits" system, i.e. Super Mario RPG - Hit a button at the right time and get a more powerful hit... As for something partially related to the Battle System, I think the PSI system could use a little tweaking. There should be a cross-breed(heehee, breed) between FF6 and EB... You should be able to learn spells in a new way, as well as having some special spells only YOU can use... i.e. magical springs that let ONE PERSON learn PSI Freeze, and then it's drained of power. Paula, however, would learn Freeze automatically, so using the spring on her is a waste. Ness would still know Special, Poo only use Starstorm, etc. WAIT! THERE'S MORE! There needs to be a more personalized battle system, meaning more personal attacks/abilities. Pray, Spy, Morph, and PSI Special are the only ones(really) in EB, and more things like that would be good... Because Morph and Spy pretty much sucked... :D Poo could have "Hex" which disables an enemies attack or PSI or soemthing like that... GRAPHICS! The EB BG's were trippy, but not quite triippy enough... The enemies should be more animated and the BG's should give clues to an enemies weakness', like the original did in some cases... Red flwoing stuff means Weakness to Fire, Red to Blue morphy stuff means Ice AND fire, wavy silver patterns - Weakness to brainshock! Get it, got it, good!
Well one thing I liked about the Earthbound battles is that the whole thing was narrated by text. Many people hated EB because the battles weren't "interactive" and they were all just "boring" text. Of course, Earthbound could be no other way. If you came across an enemy like "Annoying Old Party man", he isn't gonna use any PSI, so pretty much all he'll be able to do is regular attack, and that's just boring. So he can do stuff like "Grumble about today's youth" and stuff, which of course can only be done with text narration. Can you imagine an FF3 enemy calling you nasty names, or using its tooth brush to blind you? Nope, they just sit and do magic or attack. That's the whole magic behind EB battles.
Well since EB64 battles will obviously have more animation, they could just eliminate the text idea all together. But I think it would be neat to have a little text box telling about all the action of the battle. It would be like a stadium and an announcer is narrating the battle like a sporting event. So maybe if an enemy decided to glare with its eerie eyes or something, it could show a little animation of the enemy glaring with its eyes, and then doing the intended effect. It probably wouldn't be possible, but it would also be cool to somehow save different battles so you can read up on your most exciting ones later. You can save that time you miraculously beat that boss when it looked like certain doom, or remember an exciting even match. I would want everything from the EB battle system transfered to 3D.
I think the battle style should be similar to the original. The animations could be improved, it can show how the nemies react to blows and how they deal out their own attacks. It should keep the funky backgrounds and psi attacks. The music/attack idea sounds cool, it would work best in songs like the crow battle one, and it makes the player pay more attention to the music.
The best thing I think they could do for EB64 is A limit break system like in FF7 and FF8.
I belive, that like in real life, music will have influance in strength. As in real life, if it's music a person likes, it motivates them to do better, no matter what they are doing. Another theroy on music, is that when you attack to the beat of the music, the attack will do more damage.
I would like a view like that of in FF7 but still have the hallucinagenic backgrounds. I would like to SEE the characters and the characters using PSI, items, and weapons. I would also like them all to be in SCALE. The music would be a huge part in all of this, but Mother 2's music was GREAT!
Well I dont like the idea of music having to do with SMAAAAAAAAASH! hits. I think they should stick with the guts=SMAAAAASH! hits. I have heard roumers that there wont be PSI but instead "Magic" stick with PSI Nintendo and what is up with the release date It was origonally due back when Nintendo 64 first came out but they have delayed it so long Im beginning to think it wont come out 4 N64 they have delayed it for 4 years!!! THAT IS NUTS!!!! Im thinking that it will come out for Dolphin.
I Really like the idea of having the battle system looking relatively like the system in Earthbound (SNES). What I dont like is the fact thatt no one has mentioned rolling Hp! I love the music aspect of the battle; it has so many possibilities!
Anyway, you guys are gonna laugh at me when I say this, but I feel like I'm semi-psychic =P And I know what EB64 is going to be like. It WILL come out, you can't change that, I know it will, that dream meant something. Anyway, this is one thing I think will happen with the battle stuff. There will be SMAASH hits depending on the music from what I heard from Tomato a while ago. There'll be more actions, there WON'T be magic instead of PSI. PSI is here to stay! And also, the Yo-Yo used in SSB. Ness'll probably use that at some point in the game. Maybe there'll be new moves, too! Like Metalic Rain Alpha or somethin =D
hum, this music battle system sounds suspiouciouslly like limit breaks in ff8, but no matter. this is actually very innovative, but that obviouly means they'll have to have lots of different battle music. instead, they should have an option to either go ahead with a regular bash, or attempt for a smaaaash attack. (sorta like choosing a power swing in mariogolf) this would halfway balance it out, but still, i really think they should choose a better way to get smaash attacks. although in smprg, once you learned the timed attacks, you always got them...oh wait! good idea! they should make it so that if you abuse the smaaaash attack too much, it eventually lowers in attack (like doing the same trick in tony hawk) or possibly have a different attack power from smaaaash to regulars. anyway, thats it for regular attacks...
For psi, it should be certain characters learn certain attacks. i mean, we all agree in ff6 and 7 it was waay too easy to make a non-magic user into a believer. thats rather cheap, and it deadens gameplay..and they should have stuff character only, like stealing, throwing, runic, whatever. ok, thats all for now, but either way, the eb64 battle system will r0x your world
You should be able to choose your favourite music at the start and get SMAAAAAASH hits very easily when that music is being played. Timed hits in the Super Mario RPG is also quite a good battle system. Suppose you like one music and it is randomly being played. Your timed hits will be in for a longer time than other music. Please note that I wished the music will be randomly played so that you cannot choose the music for bosses and fight them with great ease.
Getting mortal damage but not dying is also one of the best features in EB. It should be included in EB64 as well. I also agree on Text-Battling as they are fast. Animated battling will also be great but can be skipped when you want it to be, e.g. when you are getting mortal damage but not dying.
Characters should also have special abilities when they are near unconsciousness, i.e. in FF. They will have a new command, RAGE that is similar but higher timed hit rates and higher offense. The heroes (or heroines) should also have some new special battle command or it will be boring.
Acording to several interviews with Mr. Itoi and Mr. Itoh, I think music definately plays a role. If siad that you "play" the control stick by flicking back and forth, in different directions with each direction a different sound or note. It's supposedly "like a guitar, only without the strings...
Also, I think that, over than the music, which sounds very cool indeed, the battle system should be similar, if not identical, to EarthBound. I mean, they had a great system, why drop it? And SMAAAAAASH hits should definately be there. They rule. Oh yes, and one more thing:
If NOA doesn't realease EB64 in the US, they will be condemned to a life of hatred. Their fans, angered like the gods, will quickly drop them. They would really suck if they didn't realease it in the US.
I am just praying that Mother 3 will keep its visible encounter battle system, so I don't have to deal with millions upon billions of random encounters...grrr, it makes the blood boil. And as for super long summon type psi attacks, PLEASE let there be an option to skip the cinema, so you don't have to keep watching it, (ala FF8 and FF7). Other than that, I don't care what you do. Oh wait, one other thing, keep those text messages, but couple them with an animation, so you can see what brand of toothbrush the hippie uses. Ahhh, one last thing, it would also be cool to keep the instant victories. After all, we don't want repetiveness (FF8 and FF7 again), do we? :)
Okay, after having read the SM.Net forums and reading Steve Downing's novelization of Earthbound, I've decided that Earthbound could use a battle system similar to Chrono Trigger's. Have a few simple techs here and there with the individual character, and then with two, have a dual tech, and with all three, have a triple tech... or in this case, quadruple tech! Have Paula and Ness combine PSI Rockin and PSI Freeze. Or how about Poo and Paula both using PSI Thunder while Jeff throws a rocket? Perhaps Ness and Poo using PSI Starstorm and PSI Rockin in unison? Even Ness concentrating PSI Rockin into one of Jeff's bazookas and then firing it off (of course, this tech would be used, based on what weapon Jeff has)! The possibilities are endless! And as for Jeff's weapon, it could work somewhat like FF8, where you find parts for your weapon, and upgrade them? Well Jeff would find parts in and out of battles, and with a high enough IQ, upgrade them! But that be one huge battle system, wouldn't it? Four people with their own powers? I'd say it'd be one sweet way of fighting! Snifit 2
PSI or magic?music timed attacks?!Yep,definently sounds like EB,but heres some of ideas about the endless battle system possiblities:
Whats to hate about the text battle system in EB,not much(at least it showed PSI happening)Anyways i think they should take the old Earthbound battle system and enhance it,for example,normal attacks,it would be nice if they showed you bash/shoot the enemy,and possibly show the enemy's reaction to an attack,like a normal hit knocks them down,but a SMAAAASHH!!!! hit would send them flying backwards a couple feet or meters,and although it would look kinda funny,if the SMAAAASHH! attack kills them in one hit,it sends them flying back a distance in the background,then they dissapear,i dont know about bosses though,maybe there size would matter?
Speacial items:Again,it would show some of the stuff being used,for example,Ness(if in it)is shown throwing a super bomb,or Jeff lighting off a bottle rocket.and for recovery items,perhaps to save some inventory room,get 2 kinds of herb and mix them together like in Resident Evil games,or lets say you buy a hamburger and a ketchup packet,you could mix those together before eating the burger(and again,save inventory room.other than that,maybe you could find something like gunpowder and some time of tube or shell,to make a bomb or something like that.
PSI/magic: Heres where i have alot of thoughts,I think PSI should stay in M3/EB64 but I also think magic would'nt really change anything too much,plus if it's in the future from M2/EB,PSI is more futuristic then magic,i guess,but now for the ideas:maybe you could combine PSI powers to create an even more deadly attack,for example,mix PSI freeze with PSi fire,or PSI starstorm,but the combination would have more of a freeze damage ratio if you mixed something like Freeze Gamma,with Fire Beta.and perhaps more PSI detail, like brainshock would show Poo thinking deeply to create PSI waves that make the enemy start acting strange.also more PSI attacks and greek letters for more power levels would be cool,for exaple have a Delta power level for a PSI attack,and maybe new PSI like PSI Acid rain,or PSI inferno, the possibilities are endless!you see,I could think of more,but im just posting examples.
P.S hopefully theres more freaky backgrounds again!
Andrew
The feelings I receive when I think about the battle system are rather simple. It is a direct, semi-logical progression from Mother 2's battle system.
However, there does appear to be the slightest discrepancy between the various reports I have seen. One states that hitting buttons at key moments during the battle music will effectively give a SMAAAAASH attack. The second indicates that you play a "3D stick" which I assume is the analogue stick like you would a guitar, and your damage depends on how the "song" you create.
(I use SMAAAAASH since I suspect it may be one of the few hold-overs from the Gyiyg arc of the Mother series.)
Of course, there may be a simple explanation for these discrepancies. The subcontexts in which the two disparate descriptions appear may have been the same or similar in their original, Japanese contexts, but were translated dissimilarly. However, this seems absurd and should be rejected.
Therefore, it seems that what happened is that, at some point X between the mentioning of the two descriptions, the Mother 3 team decided to switch the musical aspect of the battle system from one point to the other.
Having finished that segue, perhaps I should re-address what I expect the battle system will be like.
What Itoi said as Mother 3 plodded onto its undeserved cancellation suggests to me that when it was cancelled Mother 3 was effectively completed. That is, only the dialogue remained to be added. As a result, the battle system would have been fully implemented.
Now, here's how I believe the battle system was designed and implemented...
The Dengeki Nintendo 64 interview says that the analogue feel was carried over from EarthBound, and what we see of battles in the IGN trailer supports that. The battle system maintains both the funky backgrounds and the neither-hide-nor-hair-of-the-heroes first-person view which we remember from Mother 2.
IGN's trailer's battle scene is abbreviated, and only shows a Pigmask Sergeant being defeated. The animation is fluid and doesn't indicate any skipping throughout the battle scene.
That suggests that the battle didn't use a fancy dueling analogue stick, as one description suggested. However, it does not rule out the possibility of the timed hits (reminiscent of those in Super Mario RPG, set to the music as opposed to the animation) that were also mentioned.
Put simply, I think what happened was the musical-dueling part of the battle system was replaced withed the music-timing part.
Another aspect of the battle system concerned what I guess glosses onto the Megami Tensei [Revelations, Persona, etc.] series' Talk function, where you can somehow convince enemies not to fight you. Indeed, it is a Talk function.
The Dengeki Nintendo 64 interview gives the following quote:
"In addition, before entering into the battle, there is a new device. If you bump into an enemy, you won't immediately enter the fray, but will first have an exchange with the enemy, after which a battle will occur. [...] On the map, you can enjoy walking and fighting, and fun elements have been added. For example, even if it's a powerful enemy, if you travel along without problems, you can defeat this enemy without worry. Even if you are worried, you can cut through the exchange before you fight, I think. Of course, if you believe in yourself, you'll defeat whomever stands in your way. [...]"
The IGN trailer, however, did not show any aspect of this ability, primarily because its battle scene took place entirely within the battle. After when the discussion was going to place.
Now, this discussion part of the battle system sounds innovative, and may be an attempt to experiment on the typical pre-boss filibuster native to most RPG. It was also likely directly adapted from the Megami Tensei series.
And I mean adapted. It can't have been plagiarised, since if Revelations: The Demon Slayer [one of the Megami Tensei games] is any indication of how the Megami Tensei Talk functions work, Mother 3's Talk function would have the ability to end a battle before it had started.
But from what I can infer, it doesn't. "[Y]ou ... will first have an exchange with the enemy, after which a battle will occur. ... [I]f you travel along without problems, you can defeat [any] enemy without worry. Even if you are worried, you can cut through the exchange before you fight[.]"
The battle will occur. That's what's said, and I don't think there's any way around it. But why introduce this exchange aspect if there's no point to it?
Itoi also said that there would be a small amount of characters, I believe maxing out at 100, so that multiple characters' perspectives could be used to enlighten The Player of the personality of a character. Perhaps that's the point of the exchange system: character development. I wouldn't put it past the development team to have designed that.
Now, since I'm clearly rambling, I'll summarise and conclude:
The battle system develops directly from Mother 2's. Music factors in in that hits timed to the beat of the music are more powerful. The exchange system was designed for character development.
They should keep the same backgrounds. If they wanted to make it even more surreal, they could make all of the enemies and characters dance to the music, as well as having all of the attacks move in sycnh with the beat. It would be weird and nonsensical, and thus compleatly perfect for the Mother series.
They should also put more animation in the battles. They can keep some of the text, and after the text is done, show the animation. Like, say if Paula (Assuming she'll be in the game) Bashes, say, a Ramblin' Evil Mushroom (assuming IT'S gonna be in the game), Paula would swing a frying pan, hit the mushroom, and the mushroom would drop puffs of spores. PSI too. Say if Ness (assuming-oh, you get the idea) used PSI Special Gamma on...every enemy on the field. Ness would put his index and middle fingers on his temples, think deeply, and then thrust out his fingers and shoot out rays of assorted colors, colliding with the enemy. PSI Thunder would call out a thunderstorm, a short shower would start, and thunderbolts would rain down from the sky, hitting enemies.
That's it for me, the unknown...something...
ONE more thing I have to say is... If mother 3 comes out on Game cube, please name it Mother cubed. It makes sense. but anyways... umm... yes, the battle system... it should be red. Yes, red. Except Paula's, that should be purple, not pink, purple.
